I like the notion of learning the language and communication style of your own psyche.
I have had a recurring dream (not often but certainly not just once) in which I’m returning to a place, a time, and a relationship I have no desire to return to in waking life. The dream has struck me as annoying, like a waste of psychic space I think, as I often enjoy what I can remember of my dreamworld otherwise. I’ll have to reflect on whether I see this particular “return” as compensatory, whether I see any shadow lessons here.
Thanks for sharing! And I like the take on a book club. :)
There's so much nuance and uniqueness that is revealed in each of our dreamscapes. We can take a wide sweeping, archetypal lens to dreams; that is certainly useful. But once we begin learning how our unconscious manifests, we really tap into a wealth of insight.
You dream is intriguing. I would pay attention to the most repeating elements in the dream as well as the emotional tones present. That may point you in the direction of potential shadow lessons, a different viewpoint from the unconscious, or what this "recall" may be speaking to.
I’ve also had reoccurring dreams of returning to a past time, place and relationship, with waking feelings of annoyance or “wasted space”. It’s been going on for about 3 years and this return scenario comes up in dreams several times a year. Unrelated to the dream (at least consciously lol) over time I realized this person is someone with whom I’d like to make amends one day. I don’t know any way of contacting this person, though, or even if they’re still alive, so I can’t act on my desire. My dreams of “return” with them have always been pleasant and familial, even playful (kind of like the woman in the text who dreamt sisterly feelings toward someone she disliked in reality).
To me, it’s almost like the process of coming to want to own my part and express it to this person is a sort of “return”. I’m not avoiding this person in my psyche anymore; I journeyed to acceptance toward both this individual and myself about our experiences together. Maybe my dream conscious knew this before I fully did. Or maybe it was a positive shadow. I’m not sharing this to try to interpret your dream, I only think it’s one of infinite examples of the compensatory symbol at work. I obviously don’t *want to be back with this person* lol. It took me a while to learn that the return scenario was meaningful in a different way.
What a wonderful example of how the unconscious is reflecting perspectives that we aren't in contact with consciously. Have the dreams stopped or changed since you've come to this realization?
Thanks for sharing, Lindsey! Interestingly also “unrelated” to my returning dream, I mentioned to my daughter recently that this person was the only ex for whom I still hold some bitterness. I pride myself in not holding grudges and realizing we’re all just doing the best with what we have / who we are at any given time. And it’s not that this bitterness, as far as i’m aware holds a lot of space in my conscious life. But perhaps my psyche knows something I don’t yet know about some work I might be needing to do within me around all this.
I don't know if its ok to comment on other sharer's comments, but I just wanted to say how I also often felt that a dream was annoyingly taking me back to something again and again when I think I've dealt with that issue. The mention ot 'a waste of psychic space' made me smile!
Love this: "Thus, a dream cannot produce a definite thought. If it begins to do so, it ceases to be a dream because it crosses the threshold of consciousness. That is why dreams seem to skip the very points that are most important to the conscious mind, and seem rather to manifest the "fringe of consciousness," like the faint gleam of stars during a total eclipse of the sun." And this: "As a plant produces its flower, so the psyche creates its symbols. Every dream is evidence of this process."
I've worked dreams for years with two or three friends, and it always amazes us how much is packed into a single dream image, let alone a whole dream. I'm fascinated at the visual language, the wordplay, the frequent use of real people and places from waking life. As well, the universal messages dipped from an archetypal well. It's all so rich and mysterious. Thanks for doing this.
I cringed when I read his example of the man w/ an inferiority complex who dreamed of "great men." During Obama's presidency, he sometimes showed up in my dreams. I'll have to revisit what we discovered back then, in light of what Jung says here.
I do wonder if this particular interpretation had much to do with the client's background and what was revealed in analysis up to that point. Especially in the context of his conscious behavior and attitude. I could see Obama representing many potential aspects, inferiority complex as one, but possibly a representation of change, hope or stepping into leadership. So many ways it could go!
I was struck by that last quote as well. Jung can be so poetic in his writing.
What a gift to have close friends to share and work dreams with. Have you ever noticed similar themes or images that crossover between you all? I've not had the opportunity to be in a dream circle/group, but I have heard this phenomenon does happen sometimes.
Rich and mysterious - perfect words to sum up dreams. Thank you for sharing :)
I love your idea of discussing a Jung abstract - thanks for putting this together, length of abstract good, having it available to read at the same time is really helpful, and the prompts are great.
In The Way of the Dream von Franz said 'the trouble is that we can’t see our own back’. So I think interpreting one's own dreams is always going to be hugely troubled by that self-blindness, not least because we don't want to see our shadow qualities! When having dreams that are difficult to decipher I sometimes turn to tarot for an explanation, or I draw them, and I also recreate them in sandplay. The latter is often quite effective thought requires time and effort for making the necessary clay models and figures as dream symbols cannot easily be shop bought! I have found it is often then case that the dream makes perfect sense years later .when I re-read my journals - having the distance enables me to see obvious meaning that was difficult to see at the time, probably because I was in the woods rather than looking back at being in the woods. So, for me, having a good quality paper in my journal so that I can paste in photos of sandtrays, draw pictures and write up dreams, became important.
Great von Franz quote, Deryn. Thanks for sharing that. Deciphering dreams is fraught with uncertainty. And I think, for me, I'm always doing the work with a great sense of curiosity, while acknowledging this is just a beginning point. I don't have to get it all, I probably never will, but the chance to work with the images alone really does shift things around.
I use tarot as well! I should write more about this, as I think they are such wonderful compliments. I've never done sandplay work, but your process sounds really interesting. Especially if you get to create the figures in clay. What a great way to bridge the imaginal and sensate worlds :)
Your dream journal sounds amazing! Mine is currently fully digital, but I have considered getting a hardback and transferring over dreams and working with them further with images and such. Very inspiring!
Thanks Alyssa. I did laugh when I heard you say we would be frustrated from the get-go re: interpretation. Yep. Its especially frustrating when you have something really numinous (a huge black stallion in the dark, breath visible in against the night sky appeared), but have not clue as to whether it is appearing as itself, as a shadow aspect, or something else entirely.
The main con of a non-digital journal is its not searchable - I have a digital dream file so that I can keep track of repeated images etc.
I like to entertain all the possibilities. Usually one feels more resonant. Or, holding the tension of multiplicity (this has a personal flavor and also an archetypal root).
I absolutely love being able to search for my dreams via keywords in the digital journal. Especially with years of dreams recorded, it would be tough to find the one I want quickly.
yes, a dream last year. Huge, sleek and sweating., cld frosted air coming from its nostrils. Inside a building like a barn. Next to it I was tiny. I couldn't get up on to it without huge assistance but would fear to ride him because he was so utterly powerful, autonomous, and quite frighteningly awesome. If this was a compensatory dream I don't know if it would be criticising some aspect of myself that could be frightening to others with a capacity to ride roughshod. Or if it is compensating the other way, for an inferiority complex or something. If not compensatory, I wondered if it was demonstrating how scary and powerful the shadow can be. If an animus figure, then my God, what strength it has. If a libido figure it is notably in a barn, not running free, but has awesome potential. As you can see, I was all over the place trying to work out what it could mean, and a tad bothered because Jung mentions somewhere that a black stalliion can be a precursor to death!
Jung does a great job of calling our attention to the growing separation from our instinctual psychic basis. And yet, we can't truly run away from it, truly be split from it (and be these enlightened, rational, fully conscious beings). Rather, it is driven further into shadow, and ultimately erupts in wild, uncontrolled form (personally and collectively). Jung (and other writers and thinkers in these traditions) offer a lot of antidote and considerations for re-building this connection. It has been profound in my own life.
You correctly point out that dreams are occurring, even if we don't remember them. And the unconscious is constantly flowing underneath the surface of ego's awareness. The persistent sense of fear and anxiety upon waking sounds tough. If you're struggling to retain dream images, there are other methods for attempting to touch into that material. Active imagination is one option. Have you tried it before?
You're welcome, hope you find the resources of use.
Long before I began reading Jung and learned about active imagination, I had a strong meditative practice. Yet, it looked very different than what is typically considered meditation (at the least the version that is clearing one's mind and finding stillness). For me, meditations felt like I stepped into an imaginal world. I naturally journeyed to dark forests, swam under lakes, walked through sunny meadows. I would interact with figures, animals, and gain insight and clarity through the various interactions. Later on, I realized this is active imagination. And it can look really different for each person. Working with art, music, dance, writing, etc can open up the door to working with the unconscious. It's fascinating!
I like the notion of learning the language and communication style of your own psyche.
I have had a recurring dream (not often but certainly not just once) in which I’m returning to a place, a time, and a relationship I have no desire to return to in waking life. The dream has struck me as annoying, like a waste of psychic space I think, as I often enjoy what I can remember of my dreamworld otherwise. I’ll have to reflect on whether I see this particular “return” as compensatory, whether I see any shadow lessons here.
Thanks for sharing! And I like the take on a book club. :)
There's so much nuance and uniqueness that is revealed in each of our dreamscapes. We can take a wide sweeping, archetypal lens to dreams; that is certainly useful. But once we begin learning how our unconscious manifests, we really tap into a wealth of insight.
You dream is intriguing. I would pay attention to the most repeating elements in the dream as well as the emotional tones present. That may point you in the direction of potential shadow lessons, a different viewpoint from the unconscious, or what this "recall" may be speaking to.
Thanks for the feedback :D
I’ve also had reoccurring dreams of returning to a past time, place and relationship, with waking feelings of annoyance or “wasted space”. It’s been going on for about 3 years and this return scenario comes up in dreams several times a year. Unrelated to the dream (at least consciously lol) over time I realized this person is someone with whom I’d like to make amends one day. I don’t know any way of contacting this person, though, or even if they’re still alive, so I can’t act on my desire. My dreams of “return” with them have always been pleasant and familial, even playful (kind of like the woman in the text who dreamt sisterly feelings toward someone she disliked in reality).
To me, it’s almost like the process of coming to want to own my part and express it to this person is a sort of “return”. I’m not avoiding this person in my psyche anymore; I journeyed to acceptance toward both this individual and myself about our experiences together. Maybe my dream conscious knew this before I fully did. Or maybe it was a positive shadow. I’m not sharing this to try to interpret your dream, I only think it’s one of infinite examples of the compensatory symbol at work. I obviously don’t *want to be back with this person* lol. It took me a while to learn that the return scenario was meaningful in a different way.
What a wonderful example of how the unconscious is reflecting perspectives that we aren't in contact with consciously. Have the dreams stopped or changed since you've come to this realization?
Thanks for sharing, Lindsey! Interestingly also “unrelated” to my returning dream, I mentioned to my daughter recently that this person was the only ex for whom I still hold some bitterness. I pride myself in not holding grudges and realizing we’re all just doing the best with what we have / who we are at any given time. And it’s not that this bitterness, as far as i’m aware holds a lot of space in my conscious life. But perhaps my psyche knows something I don’t yet know about some work I might be needing to do within me around all this.
I appreciate your perspective. :)
I don't know if its ok to comment on other sharer's comments, but I just wanted to say how I also often felt that a dream was annoyingly taking me back to something again and again when I think I've dealt with that issue. The mention ot 'a waste of psychic space' made me smile!
And I’d say for sure comment on other sharers’ stuff. I love it when that happens on my stack at any rate.
Agreed!
Thanks for saying, Deryn. It’s interesting to hear you’ve had a similar reaction to a recall of the past in dreams. :)
Absolutely, please comment on one another's posts. A lot to be discovered and shared through communal interaction.
How did your dreams change after you dealt with the issue?
Love this: "Thus, a dream cannot produce a definite thought. If it begins to do so, it ceases to be a dream because it crosses the threshold of consciousness. That is why dreams seem to skip the very points that are most important to the conscious mind, and seem rather to manifest the "fringe of consciousness," like the faint gleam of stars during a total eclipse of the sun." And this: "As a plant produces its flower, so the psyche creates its symbols. Every dream is evidence of this process."
I've worked dreams for years with two or three friends, and it always amazes us how much is packed into a single dream image, let alone a whole dream. I'm fascinated at the visual language, the wordplay, the frequent use of real people and places from waking life. As well, the universal messages dipped from an archetypal well. It's all so rich and mysterious. Thanks for doing this.
I cringed when I read his example of the man w/ an inferiority complex who dreamed of "great men." During Obama's presidency, he sometimes showed up in my dreams. I'll have to revisit what we discovered back then, in light of what Jung says here.
I do wonder if this particular interpretation had much to do with the client's background and what was revealed in analysis up to that point. Especially in the context of his conscious behavior and attitude. I could see Obama representing many potential aspects, inferiority complex as one, but possibly a representation of change, hope or stepping into leadership. So many ways it could go!
I was struck by that last quote as well. Jung can be so poetic in his writing.
What a gift to have close friends to share and work dreams with. Have you ever noticed similar themes or images that crossover between you all? I've not had the opportunity to be in a dream circle/group, but I have heard this phenomenon does happen sometimes.
Rich and mysterious - perfect words to sum up dreams. Thank you for sharing :)
That’s a great question. Nothing comes to mind, which probably means - YES! 😁 I’ll have a think about that. May even bring it up at our next meeting.
Hope it sparks some interesting conversation!
I love your idea of discussing a Jung abstract - thanks for putting this together, length of abstract good, having it available to read at the same time is really helpful, and the prompts are great.
In The Way of the Dream von Franz said 'the trouble is that we can’t see our own back’. So I think interpreting one's own dreams is always going to be hugely troubled by that self-blindness, not least because we don't want to see our shadow qualities! When having dreams that are difficult to decipher I sometimes turn to tarot for an explanation, or I draw them, and I also recreate them in sandplay. The latter is often quite effective thought requires time and effort for making the necessary clay models and figures as dream symbols cannot easily be shop bought! I have found it is often then case that the dream makes perfect sense years later .when I re-read my journals - having the distance enables me to see obvious meaning that was difficult to see at the time, probably because I was in the woods rather than looking back at being in the woods. So, for me, having a good quality paper in my journal so that I can paste in photos of sandtrays, draw pictures and write up dreams, became important.
Great von Franz quote, Deryn. Thanks for sharing that. Deciphering dreams is fraught with uncertainty. And I think, for me, I'm always doing the work with a great sense of curiosity, while acknowledging this is just a beginning point. I don't have to get it all, I probably never will, but the chance to work with the images alone really does shift things around.
I use tarot as well! I should write more about this, as I think they are such wonderful compliments. I've never done sandplay work, but your process sounds really interesting. Especially if you get to create the figures in clay. What a great way to bridge the imaginal and sensate worlds :)
Your dream journal sounds amazing! Mine is currently fully digital, but I have considered getting a hardback and transferring over dreams and working with them further with images and such. Very inspiring!
Thanks Alyssa. I did laugh when I heard you say we would be frustrated from the get-go re: interpretation. Yep. Its especially frustrating when you have something really numinous (a huge black stallion in the dark, breath visible in against the night sky appeared), but have not clue as to whether it is appearing as itself, as a shadow aspect, or something else entirely.
The main con of a non-digital journal is its not searchable - I have a digital dream file so that I can keep track of repeated images etc.
Wow, is the stallion a dream image of yours?
I like to entertain all the possibilities. Usually one feels more resonant. Or, holding the tension of multiplicity (this has a personal flavor and also an archetypal root).
I absolutely love being able to search for my dreams via keywords in the digital journal. Especially with years of dreams recorded, it would be tough to find the one I want quickly.
yes, a dream last year. Huge, sleek and sweating., cld frosted air coming from its nostrils. Inside a building like a barn. Next to it I was tiny. I couldn't get up on to it without huge assistance but would fear to ride him because he was so utterly powerful, autonomous, and quite frighteningly awesome. If this was a compensatory dream I don't know if it would be criticising some aspect of myself that could be frightening to others with a capacity to ride roughshod. Or if it is compensating the other way, for an inferiority complex or something. If not compensatory, I wondered if it was demonstrating how scary and powerful the shadow can be. If an animus figure, then my God, what strength it has. If a libido figure it is notably in a barn, not running free, but has awesome potential. As you can see, I was all over the place trying to work out what it could mean, and a tad bothered because Jung mentions somewhere that a black stalliion can be a precursor to death!
Hey Brian, welcome to The Artemisian :)
Jung does a great job of calling our attention to the growing separation from our instinctual psychic basis. And yet, we can't truly run away from it, truly be split from it (and be these enlightened, rational, fully conscious beings). Rather, it is driven further into shadow, and ultimately erupts in wild, uncontrolled form (personally and collectively). Jung (and other writers and thinkers in these traditions) offer a lot of antidote and considerations for re-building this connection. It has been profound in my own life.
You correctly point out that dreams are occurring, even if we don't remember them. And the unconscious is constantly flowing underneath the surface of ego's awareness. The persistent sense of fear and anxiety upon waking sounds tough. If you're struggling to retain dream images, there are other methods for attempting to touch into that material. Active imagination is one option. Have you tried it before?
A couple articles you may find of interest:
- To restart or get back in touch with dreams: https://alyssapolizzi.substack.com/p/restarting-a-dreamwork-practice
- Guiding principles for active imagination: https://alyssapolizzi.substack.com/p/transformations-of-the-psyche
Thanks for your thoughtful comments!
You're welcome, hope you find the resources of use.
Long before I began reading Jung and learned about active imagination, I had a strong meditative practice. Yet, it looked very different than what is typically considered meditation (at the least the version that is clearing one's mind and finding stillness). For me, meditations felt like I stepped into an imaginal world. I naturally journeyed to dark forests, swam under lakes, walked through sunny meadows. I would interact with figures, animals, and gain insight and clarity through the various interactions. Later on, I realized this is active imagination. And it can look really different for each person. Working with art, music, dance, writing, etc can open up the door to working with the unconscious. It's fascinating!